Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership withRetreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, welcome again, to the Behavioral Corner. It's me, I actually get compensated for hanging on the Corner. At least that's the conceit. It's a great Corner, the Behavioral Corner. It's a podcast about everything because everything affects our behavioral health. It's all made possible by our great partners, our underwriting partners Retreat Behavioral Health, as I've told you in the past, you'll hear more about them down the road. But as I've told you many times in the past, they not only, you know, pay, pay, you know, keep the lights on here. But they also are a great reservoir of expert people to talk about substance abuse and treatment, and mental health and treatment as well. So we rely upon them from time to time. And we're going to do that again today, with an old pal of ours from this life and a couple of others. As a matter of fact, Jim Duffy. Jim is with Retreat Behavioral Health now. And he is the business...

Jim Duffy 
Business Development Manager.

Steve Martorano 
There you go. It's got a title and everything. And he's an old pal, I said, of this program. And me personally, what we do is, Jim, throughout the year, we will do what we call "Voices in Recovery". And I like to say that all stories of substance abuse and recovery are the same, except they're different. And we run them not so much for the particular details of the story, although they are helpful and fascinating. But because we need the intent is to remind people that as serious as substance abuse is, and it certainly is serious. People get well, and people recover. It's critically important to remind people of this, you can tell them about treatments, and you can tell them about the devastation that's caused by this disease. But you got to remind people that lots of people get well, they maintain their sobriety, and they put their lives back together. So that's what our series of these programs are about. And we are...we couldn't be more delighted to have Jim, with us, since as we record this. He is now into the I guess this first day of the fourth decade of being sober. Congratulations, Jim Duffy, 39 years of sobriety.

Jim Duffy 
Thank you, Steve.

Steve Martorano 
That's an extraordinary achievement. You are, I think, way out in front on the length of your sobriety, as in terms of our guests. So I'm delighted it's so timely to have you here. 39 years of extraordinary achievement. And while it is at the far end of the spectrum, on maintaining sobriety, you're living proof that it's possible. You're the poster boy of what I'm talking about.

Jim Duffy 
Thank you.

Steve Martorano 
Let's talk about let's go way back now and talk about your situation. What was your problem way back when you had the problem? And more specifically, what was the first thing you did on the way to those 39 years?

Jim Duffy 
Thanks, Dave. It's good to be here with you again. It's been a few years. For me, the first attempt at recovery was actually when I was in the military. And I'd gotten in trouble. Alcohol was the culprit, which was my best friend. But when I drank I had a tendency to either end up in the hospital, locked up, beat up, or all the above which happened in this case. And in the military, they want to discipline you for acting out. And I don't know where I came out with this solution was, I think I have a drinking problem. First time I ever said that. I was really looking to get out of trouble. I wasn't looking to stop drinking. I knew nothing absolutely nothing about alcoholism. I just knew I didn't want to get in trouble. And they sent me to this little old counselor across the base. And he showed me this film called Chalk Talks in 1975, September. And for the first time in my adult life, I'm getting an education on alcoholism. and I find myself laughing about this priest who's telling jokes. But identifying with the behaviors some of them I hadn't gotten to yet. But some of them I already had. And I knew in my heart that that's me. I'm an alcoholic, and he gave me the solution. The solution was to go to AA. So I did. 19 years old, I went to AA. And they welcomed me. They told me their stories. And I stayed in there, I went to a lot of meetings down in Fort Rucker, Alabama. And stay sober for 30 days, then I was having trouble. So I was at an AA. But the important piece was the seed was planted. I knew in my heart, I was an alcoholic. And I knew there was a solution. I wasn't ready.

Steve Martorano 
So yeah, so prior to that, though, your typical, what's the phrase they use, "goldbrick." Messing around and getting in trouble. You're just a kid, right? Just a kid 19 years old. That, so I get it. But this is like, okay, whatever I got to do just did not wind up in this jackpot again. Show me the way and then you see this movie. And you go, "Huh, how about that?" Now, you're you little unique here in the story that you tell about getting your first meeting and that you're 19, again, and as I said, I spoke to many people who tell that exact story. And every one of them says that almost every one of them says the same thing about that first meeting, they sit down, and they're not more than 20 minutes into it before they go. "Who the hell are these people?" I'm not...I'm not, you know, they're all older than you...most of them are older than you. Most of them have war stories. You know, you go "Oh, my God, I'm not this crowd." You didn't have that experience?

Jim Duffy 
Absolutely had that experience. I looked at them. I knew they were old. Because they were in their 30s and 40s. There was a couple in their 50s and a 19-year-old male. Steve, I was interested in one other thing besides drinking. That was women. And it was more of a lot of women down in southern Alabama. So yeah...

Steve Martorano 
I get that moment. I've heard that I've, I'm not a person. I've never been in this situation. Mercifully been spared this problem, but I certainly understand the I'm not a joiner attitude. I kind of feel like that. I mean, I like hanging out and I like other people, but I don't like, you know, organization spackle like, Oh, you got to be here. This time. You got to do these things. How do you over how did you get past that? At 19 where it's so easy to go? "I don't need this. I'm okay."

Jim Duffy 
Well, the motivation at that point, obviously, was the United States government which said, you need to do this. Yeah. And once I didn't need to do it. I was gone. Yeah, I never forgot.

Steve Martorano 
You're not giving yourself enough credit here. There are a lot of guys who set down that road for the most obvious reason. I don't want to get another jam. But still, go back to their bad habits. I mean, you did so...

Jim Duffy 
I did that too. I went back to drinking. But in the back of my mind, every time I drank every jackpot I got into I continued that the pattern didn't change. The only thing that changed was the characters that were around me. The places I was at. I had been escorted out of Panama City Beach, Florida saying "Please don't come back." It was that bad. Because we'd like to have fun. We drank and we raised hell.

Steve Martorano 
You were thrown out of the entire city?

Jim Duffy 
Oh, yeah. Don't come back, please.

Steve Martorano 
You know what? You'll be familiar with the phrase euphoric recall.

Steve Martorano 
Oh, yeah.

Steve Martorano 
Remember that? I remember the first time I met all you guys, you know, you were all in you know, the business now of sobriety and treatment. But there were these stories. And they were all colorful.

Jim Duffy  
Yes

Steve Martorano 
You're just like your guys who would wake up in a strange room. peek through the drapes, and then wonder how palm trees got in Pennsylvania. Okay, so you know, those stories interested me. And then somebody later on said to me, "Yes, Steve, those are called euphoric recalls." And in treatment, or in the rooms what they always say is, "YUeah, finish the story, though. What's the rest of the story?"

Jim Duffy 
I get locked up getting beat up.

Steve Martorano 
I smashed the car.

Jim Duffy 
Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
That story always ends the same, but it's one of those you know, yes. I've been through it. I've been asked to leave bars but not the whole city. So that's amazing. All right. So anyway, you make the stumbling first steps. And then when does it gain traction for you?

Jim Duffy 
It took 10 more years, Steve. And it was a combination of I didn't want to go to AA. I'll do anything. I'm smart. I can figure out how to beat this problem, this alcohol. So I tried my own way, I would move from no more liquor, I'm just going to drink beer. No more beer. I'm going to drink wine. No, I'm just going to smoke pot. I'm just going to do it was always some kind of combination, where I'm going to do it my way. The jackpots would come back. And when I get to a point where I can't take this anymore, or the pressures on well, then I would try another program. I used to visit the VA in Coatesville. They would sober me up and say, you know, you should go to AA. I'm like, I know what I gotta do. And that was the problem. I always said I did and then didn't do anything. I went back to the same Corner, doing the same thing. And if nothing changes, Steve, nothing changes.

Steve Martorano 
Nothing changes. Yeah, yeah.

Jim Duffy 
It took me getting married, and having a couple of kids very quickly. She had two kids. So I was married with four kids at the age of 29. Had a good job working for the shipyard at the time. So I had a job. But it was still there. The jackpot, I had another DUI, I got in another fight, I got beat up in the hospital. So the same things were still happening. And I have responsibility. I couldn't stop. And I remember looking at my six-month-old daughter in January 1985 and saying, why can I stop? And for me, I literally screamed out. "God, please help me." The next day, I got into rehab. And I didn't know anything about rehab. I knew about AA. I knew about the VA. But for the first time, the change was "You want me to do what? Okay, I'll try it." So willing to take direction. Willing to do things that in my mind sounded absolutely nonsensical. But you know what I'm gonna try. I'm gonna look in the mirror and say I like you. I'm like, Are you kidding me? Do you want me to look in the mirror? And tell that guy that I love you? Yeah, that's what happened. But I did it. Whatever they suggested I tried. And at the end of it, it's like, well, you know what you need to do. Here we go again, you want me to go to that? Damn AA. But I had been there I tried NA, and I knew that was the solution. But I still had the same apprehension, I still had the same fear. Walking into that next meeting. I had my list. I got out at 10 o'clock in the morning. My meeting was at nine o'clock at night. I knew by 11 o'clock. I wasn't going to make it till nine o'clock. And I ended up at a noon meeting at a clubhouse where they have meetings throughout the day. As soon as I got there that relief was there like, I'm home, I'm safe.

Steve Martorano 
Wow.

Jim Duffy 
Maybe.

Steve Martorano 
You have no doubt that if you tried to make it till nine, you would have been in trouble. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you had the presence of mind to go. This isn't working. You know, let me ask you a question whether or not those Airoli I will say failures, but difficulties with AA, as opposed to your first trip to rehab was the different context you found yourself in some people, I think have the mistaken notion that AA is a treatment for substance abuse, when it is not, does not treat the problem. It supports people who are in treatment trying to get sober. Was it that shift where you went? Okay, this is now a medical issue. Now I'm in with professionals, who are you know, we like ignoring a doctor telling you to stop eating sweets when you've got diabetes, you start to take it seriously, if it's in that medical context, did that work in your mind that way?

Jim Duffy 
Not the medical piece. The biggest part was the facility I went through, you had a lot of recovering people working then as therapists, which still happens today. So you were getting that but the magic actually happened within the community, which is similar to when you leave and you get involved in AA. So the community is where the treatment actually happens. Yeah, you go into the group you have a counselor. He helps you with things or she helps you with things But it's in the community, seeing people's lives starting to change and starting to trust for the first time. In many years, what you're hearing is the truth. And here's a way out of the way you're feeling. Here's a permanent way out if you follow the directions. So for me, that was, you know, I saw the information, it didn't matter, for me with the education piece that I could figure out why I'm an alcoholic, or what started, it didn't matter. For me once I put alcohol in this body. All bets were off. And it was too many examples.

Steve Martorano 
Too much evidence. Yeah. Yeah. That's a deep insight, though. Giving up wondering why. And going. Who cares why let's stop this.

Jim Duffy 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Right. Let's talk about it because I don't you know, when people ask me about AA, and I've been to some meetings, I've observed them, I think I understand its background, and how it operates. And people say, What do you think I say? Well, it works for the people it works for without a doubt. Without a doubt, you have no doubt as, as you're sitting here, 39 years into your sobriety that did you not follow that? Their model? You'd be in trouble today?

Jim Duffy 
Absolutely. The program in itself, the 12 steps, is your path to change the person you are. So if you look at those steps that they offer you, they say suggestions, the the only one that talks about alcohol is the first step. The other one is about you getting in touch with a higher power dealing with the stuff you did before. And then moving on how do I change my life? And how do I learn to be a more accountable person? That's what that piece is. And at the end is like, alright, if you want to keep this, you need to help others.

Steve Martorano 
Yep, let me ask you, were you a religious person, when you finally got, into the main AA groove?

Jim Duffy 
No, no.

Steve Martorano 
How did you deal with this God thing or greater power thing?

Jim Duffy 
That's a great question. For me, I did have a religious background. So growing up, I was exposed to organized religion. I look at stuff I'm like, why would God let all this stuff happen? So for me, spirituality is God to me is love. There's all these different religions. And if you look at the core of what they're trying to do is love one another, and be helpful. Contribute, but they have the rules. So I question the rules. I don't care what religion it is. I'll question well, why don't you want me to eat meat on Friday? I mean, God didn't say that. Why do you want me to wear this type of clothes? God didn't say that. What I know, for me, is this spirit, this higher power. And for me, in the beginning, it was the people in the rooms. God comes to me through people in recovery, and says, Hey, why don't you try this? So I'm still open to those suggestions, which is how I got into this field to begin with. And how I've grown personally, is people saying, You know what, you can do that. Why don't you try that? And not dependent on Jim Duffy? Yep. thinking, You know what, that's a good idea. Let me do that. Every time that happens, I have a tendency to end up in a place I shouldn't be.

Steve Martorano 
Yes, that's remarkable. And this is why we love these programs. And we think they're valuable. And that is that once again, I've heard the stories once the substance abuser can get out of the way. It's interesting to think of the person with the problem, having to get out of the way and let the program work. That's another way of talking about surrender. I can't do this by myself anymore. There's got to be something outside there that I can rely upon. Is that what you mean by a greater power something other than yourself?

Jim Duffy 
Oh, definitely. For me, the first experience that I could see as tangible was Alcoholics Anonymous. They loved me when I was questioning who am I. I've done all these things. How could anybody trust me? How could anybody love me? How can anybody keep telling me to come? Keep coming back? And as I went forward, I was actually feeling pretty good. My career at the shipyard got sidetracked when the FBI visited me and, you know, that just threw a wrench in everything. But I had the support of Alcoholics Anonymous, my sponsor said, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but sounds like you might need one. I can get you to a meeting, I can help you stay sober no matter what happens. And they did. A few months later, and 11 months sober, my son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And that was devastating. And every day that we were at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia, AA showed up every single day. They carried my family through that. They always ask, how's Jimmy doing? What can we do to help? So all the treatments and everything that I've been through, as long as I put it out there and say, Hey, I'm struggling with this. They surround you, they lift you up, and they carry you through it.

Steve Martorano 
Jim Duffy is our guest. Jim is a colleague, he works with the Retreat Behavioral Health and their business development department. He's the manager there, and he's celebrating 39 years of sobriety. How many times were you in strict rehab? Have you gone through rehab? Did you Was it more than one visit? Or?

Jim Duffy 
It's not an easy question to answer. So I went to the VA and told them, I needed detox. And they did that. So I was there for seven days. Then two months later, I went back and said, I need detox. They did that. And I left because I had the answers. And then a few months later, I said oh, by the way, I went back. Because my life was spiraling out of control. This was 1979. I said, By the way, I'm doing an awful lot of methamphetamine too. So they put me in a different program, which I stayed for six weeks. They wanted me there for six months. That wasn't my plan. So there are three experiences where at least I was exposed once again, to therapy. When I went to the last facility, I stayed the length of time they asked me to stay even at the end. I was getting out on Monday. I said, Well, why can't I leave on Friday? You never know what's going to happen between Friday and Monday. You need to stay so I stayed?

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, well, lots of bad things can happen between Friday and Monday. You think about it. I just wanted to I just wanted to make the point that so that we didn't give people the idea that these 39 years have just dropped in your lap and you were you know, often running. There was a...it's a battle. It's a battle for sure. So I certainly understand how after a period of time, I'm not certain how much that time is being sober. Working at being sober, becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy so much as a motivator in I don't want to trivialize this but it's nothing that helps you stay on your fitness program or your weight loss program other than the fact that you're losing weight, right? Well, here's my brothers who pounds they got to keep at it. There is a multiplier effect. As you go deeper into sobriety, you're in a great position to talk about that. You must think Oh, my God, I've got so much to lose if I ever messed up 39 years, right?

Jim Duffy 
Absolutely. It's been a journey. In the beginning, my fear was that being still in my 20s was what am I going to do. And what I found out was, as I surrounded myself with like-minded alcoholics, and drug addicts who had the same interest, I liked playing ball. So I got involved with guys, we volunteered, that's how I ended up working at a facility, we would go there and play softball with the patients. It was great. That's how they saw me and said we're really good with patients. Did you ever consider working at a treatment facility? I'm like, I'm a pipe fitter. Alright, you want me to make how much money. But the camaraderie with the people I played ball with, we started a team and then there was a recovery League, and everything we did that I used to do drinking. I was doing sober with sober people. Life's the same. There's just no alcohol. And that slowly built, and I would sit in the meetings I remember early on sitting in, and I would hear these people saying, Yeah, I'm in college, I'm doing this. And I'd say to my sponsor, man, I want to go to college. And he would look at me, he would take that little sign he goes, You got to learn how to stay sober first. All that stuff will come. You just have to stay sober. And that that was the key there.

Steve Martorano 
How'd you find that first? Sponsor, did they reach out to you? Or did you? How did that happen?

Jim Duffy 
For me, the first guy I asked his name was Jimmy, a Levittown, older guy, nine years sober, which I thought was unbelievable. And I said, Jimmy, can I have your phone number? And he was an angry guy. And he looked at me and said, No, so many people already have my number. I was like, Oh, man. So it was this other guy who's a little crazy identified with him, Charlie, and he was at the clubhouse. I said, Charlie, would you be my sponsor? He said, Well, by the rules. I can't because I only have a year, you should have somebody with at least two years. I'm like, That's two. You know, I'm like, I'm gonna try this. One more was right around 90 days. I'm like, you know, I'm trying to do this, what they suggested. People are saying no, or they're, they don't have enough time. So it was a guy at my home group, a teamster, Jimmy Tompkins. God rest his soul. And I looked up to him and I said, At the break, I said, Jimmy, would you be my sponsor? And he had that stunned look on his face, like, and I'm like, oh, here we go. Again. He said, Just give me a minute. Well, here, Jimmy just had two years sober. And he had never sponsored anybody. So he wanted to check with his sponsor. Is that okay, is he ready? And his sponsor said yes, he became my first sponsor, and he was involved in this thing called service, Philadelphia inner group. And when you have a sponsor that's involved in service, you're involved. So I went from the periphery from the outside, closer to the center of the circle. And that's the circle that kept me safe when I would have some difficult times in my life. What I loved about Jimmy, he had the same background as I had. So I was a labor guy, and he was a labor guy, but he loved sports.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's, I'm struck by the immersive nature of this, that the more the deeper you get into the sober ethic, the more you surround yourself with the idea of not abusing substances, the stronger you can become. When you talk to people. Well, firstly, before we do that, you've done the 12 steps. I take Yes, yeah. We, if we've had a couple of deep discussions about what step three means to you, whether you have difficulty with the steps or? Or were they relatively simple for you, once you got a handle on I'm going to do this?

Jim Duffy 
The first three, at least at the treatment center, I was at back in the day, you had to do the first five steps before you left treatment. So the first one, you know, surrendering, is not a big deal. The second one? All right, there is a higher power that can help me with this. And the third one, I think I'll let them know there's a third-step prayer. So here I am in the treatment center. The thing I didn't want to do was called the fourth step, which is write down all the stuff that I did wrong. So, the first step is easy. Second, the third step. My counselor is pushing me when you got to take the third step. It's a little prayer. So I went actually in the woods and said this prayer because one of the founders had this spiritual awakening. So I say this prayer, and then I'm waiting...

Steve Martorano 
For the white light.

Jim Duffy 
Yeah, something even a little breeze something. And what I've learned is, that's a continuum. That if you looked at me, then you look at me now it'd be like, Wow, what? How did that happen? That's the spiritual awakening.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yeah. Actually, the moment did happen, you just, it just didn't. I'm presuming here. The moment did happen when you when you went, I'm gonna go in the woods here. And I'll say this. I don't know what it's gonna do. And I'll just say it, but that was, that's the moment it's not a blinding light. It's not a bush burning. It's not a voice from the clouds. It's a Dammit, I'll go in the woods and do this, right? It's just an amazing story. These stories are really uplifting. So those from people sitting out there going, I can't do any of this stuff I can't. Jim Duffy went in the woods because he was a little embarrassed and having to say this prayer, which he wasn't quite sure he, you know, believed what the hell? I'll do it. That's the moment. That is the moment. Look, there are many, many pitfalls that people in sobriety are going to confront when you talk to people who are trying to recover and are stressed. Or are the tips you give them on what to avoid and how they can not stumble? Because relapse is actually part of recovery. I mean, it's not something the end of the world, but it's a real setback. What do you tell people about the kinds of dangers that lurk out there?

Jim Duffy 
Good question, Steve. There are a lot of situations, especially in early recovery, where I need to be honest enough with myself when something's starting to affect me. But I have my plan in place. So if somebody shared, I just heard a guy talk about going to a wedding, but alcohol didn't bother him. And he was only a few months over. Now, I can relate to that, because I had a similar experience. My sister was getting married in May. I got out in March. So it's pretty close. And I talked about it because I was worried that's there were going to be people drinking and how am I going to handle this. My family's going to be there. They don't trust me to begin with. And they said, What? Do you have phone numbers? Yes. Do you have an exit strategy? What would you what's an exit strategy? Well, if you're feeling uncomfortable, you need to get out of there. Tell your sister that you may have to leave. And I was surprised. She was like that's not a problem. So I'm sitting there at the table not drinking. And I already noticed that Aunt Ida's on her third beer. Now what normal person knows that Aunt Ida's is on her third beer? That was an indication that I was focused on alcohol, not Aunt Ida. And I said you know what? Time for me to go. I went went to a meeting. So having that backup plan, I don't have to put myself in jeopardy. So sharing those stories with newcomers. And yeah, this is going to happen. You need to be honest enough with yourself and have a plan. They give it to you.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. And be and be alert. That brings me to the notion of the role. Family and friends, relationships played in your recovery. How important were ...and how much time did it take for them to get on board and go? Okay, he may have to leave the wedding. I got it. Right. Tell me about that.

Jim Duffy 
In my situation, I had pretty much burned every bridge with my family that was there. It took them a while to trust me again. So the communication...they were always worried about Jimmy's common. Should we hide the beer shoe booths? And then if they were coming to my house, like my daughter had a christening, like, should we have alcohol there? And my father sees my other. maybe my uncle could be in this program. The way they were looking guys, you gotta get a case of beer for that. All right. So the family slow...it took years, Steve, for them to finally like, oh, wait a second. He is doing this thing. He didn't go back to the old ways. He's not stealing from us. He's not lying to us. And wait a second. My son's having a problem. Maybe you should talk to him. So that took a while I have a nephew who's celebrating 30-something years, this year. And he's doing great. He's changed his whole life at a young age.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, it's amazing how someone abusing alcohol or any substance starts out as a destructive force within the family and with the grace of whoever and some hard work. You do not only stop doing that, but you can wind up helping the family that you were so playing or they were plaguing them. It's it's a it's a real strengthening thing. I've seen that and for folks like you, that service notion is a very powerful motivator. Jimmy, thanks so much man. With Jim and I go back a couple of years in this thing. It's been too long since you've been on the Corner. Your stories are worth hearing over and over again. 39 years, you're beginning your fourth decade, you may be...you may be young enough to notch another 40. You may if you hold up pretty well. Either way, it's a great achievement. And you are...you are an inspiration for people out there. Jimmy can do it. They can do it. Right?

Jim Duffy 
Amen. Steve, anybody, recovery is possible for anybody. And when I'm working with somebody, especially if they're like, not sure you see that look in their eyes. And I always ask them, I said, Can you do it? And without hesitation, most of them will look in the eye and say yes. And then I'll ask them another question. Do you deserve it? And they say, Yes, I do. I said, then let's get it. It always concerns me when somebody's head goes down, and their eyes go down. And they're like, that hesitation, because they're not believing that they deserve this. And they do.

Steve Martorano 
That's a that's a huge insight. Yeah, everybody deserves to be happy. Everybody deserves to have a whole life. Give Duffy, thanks so much, man. We got to share a cigar at some point.

Jim Duffy 
I stopped cigars.

Steve Martorano 
Oh, you stopped? Good for you. Okay, well, then. You're not coming to the party. Jim Duffy thanks again. I really appreciate it.

Jim Duffy 
Steve, always a pleasure. Appreciate you.

Steve Martorano 
Congratulations again. Hey, guys, thank you as well. Don't forget wherever Podcasts can be podcasts, you'll find the Behavioral Corner there. We hope you will subscribe and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and wherever else they throw us. We appreciate it. Catch you next time. Bye bye.

Retreat Behavioral Health 
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